Where’s the line…

…between boldly submissive and coercion?

…between offering a body, a tool and concocting a scene?

…between kneeling in subservience and kneeling in expectation?

Let me explain. I really want to kneel for Sir with the crop in my mouth. As a surprise, an offering. If He doesn’t want to play, I know some part of me will be disappointed but at the same time I do not expect anything. At all. I just feel a strong desire to show Him this, to show my love and faith and trust in Him in this way. I’m not quite sure how to put my feelings into words here, hopefully this makes a bit of sense.

My dilemma: is this “topping from the bottom” or can it be just what I desire it be…an offering??

Thoughts? Anyone? Bueller?



22 thoughts on “Where’s the line…

      • After talking with my Husband and asking Him to read some things, He agreed with you and Xajow… as long as it is done from a submissive frame of mind – not demanding, expecting or manipulating – kneeling with a toy or implement would not cross the line into topping. He would view it as the honest offering it is and would respond however He saw fit. I was so confused by the end of the day on this topic! I gave it over to Sir and He was very sure in His views. πŸ™‚


      • So glad you talked to your Sir about it…that was the best thing you could do….if your confused…seek his help. That’s such a great aspect of the whole D/s-M dynamic…communication!


      • Thanks, girl! The communication is a Godsend!! After all these years, I’m just now learning how to really open up to my Husband and EVERYTHING is so much better and brighter because of it. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you. πŸ™‚


      • I’m glad you talked to Him. I think this journey makes us second guess how well we know our husbands, sometimes. It’s good, in some aspects, that there are still things to learn, but sometimes I stress myself out about what he thinks and feels even though my instincts are right 99% of the time.

        I’m having a dilemma right now with kneeling. I want to kneel for Him, but I’m afraid it’s too soon and that it will make Him feel awkward or uncomfortable. I’m afraid that I’ll look bad, because I’m heavier than I’d like to be right now, …Geesh, my mind is really vanilla right now!!!


      • Yes. My Husband flat out told me not to try to read His mind…if I have any questions or doubts, I need to bring them to Him right away!
        Now …Get out of that vanilla headspace. πŸ˜‰ It took months for me to bring up kneeling to my Husband, even after we were well into practicing the D/s thing. Seven months, I think it took me. I was worried about it being weird for Him, or it being too “scripted” feeling, if that makes sense. Of course, I finally emailed Him to bring it up, we discussed. The first time, I felt weird because I wasn’t sure He was really into it. He was definitely into it… my vanilla head was the only issue.
        Body image is a beast all it’s own. I gained a lot of weight with pregnancies (50 – 70 pounds!), so I’ve been all over the scale. Find that place in your head and just give yourself to him. You are who he loves and wants. I know my Sir never wanted me less when I was bigger. πŸ™‚


      • Yeah, I’d need a lobotomy to get rid of that place in my head. Not only have I yo-yo’d my whole life, I’ve spent the better part of the last year depressed, using food as therapy. I’m at my biggest right now, but I’m working on that.

        Part of my specific submission is being more attractive for Him, even though He’s very sweet and always tells me He loves me no matter where my weight is. Now that I’ve bared my soul to Him, and we’re on this path, I found a renewed desire to take care of myself and get in shape. If I’m not doing that, I’m not doing a very good job of caring for the things that are most important to Him!!

        I’m glad you said that about “reading His mind,” I’m fairly sure my Sir would prefer I asked Him questions too. Thanks for the insight!!


  1. Everyone of us has a different perspective of what our D/s journey should look like. That is what is so wonderful about all of “this thing that we do”! Some want high protacols, and some none at all, it’s really about what you and your Sir want it to be.
    I will give you my opinion of what I would do from the vantage point of my dynamic with my Sir.
    If I were to get naked and present on all fours with my Sirs crop in my mouth, Sir would most definitely see this as topping from the bottom. In our relationship, I trust that he will give me all that I need and then some, this allows me to clear my mind and just enjoy the ride. My expectations of what I want in a scene, are not being submissive, they are vanilla thoughts setting up disappointments that I didn’t or wont get my way. And when your lying there with those expectations/vanilla thoughts swirling in your mind, your head is not clear to receive his dominance, your mind wants to steer the scene to your liking. Not good!
    What I will do from time to time is have a “desires” talk with my Sir, telling him fantasies, likes & dislikes, and all the kinky desires I have whirling in my mind and heart. He sees this as communication and possible future scene material! But when and how, and where is all decided by him.
    This is what works best for us! Good luck…πŸ’—πŸ±


    • Ok, I see your point. I am not looking to set up a scene and I definitely do not want to control Him or His response. I thought perhaps it’d be a pleasant surprise. So, then, would any unprompted act like this be considered manipulation? In your opinion? I know everyone does this differently. I do not want to misstep – I just want to give him something, do something for him…He does so much for me.


      • In my D/s yes… My Sir would call me on it in a heartbeat. I learned early on that he was in control… And now I love it this way. I trust and know without doubt that he will fulfill my needs and desires. As for giving him something…you are…. Your giving him Your submission, your gift to him, the ultimate! Our pleasure is their pleasure, sometimes a hard thing to see from our prospective view. Sir and I have had this discussion many times, where I have had concern that he is not getting enough back, or me wanting to give him something more for all he has given me. He assures me all the time that he is overwhelmed with fulfillment watching me writh and orgasm over and over at his touch. He would tell you this is the ultimate gift I have ever offered him.


      • Gotcha. Definitely would be crossing a line. I am such a worrier by nature…and I really don’t want to take more than I give…in any aspect of my life. You are right, though, I am giving Him something…my Sir has said the same to me more times than I care to mention. Thank you so much for your perspective…I will not cross this line.


  2. My Sir, loves to find me kneeling waiting for him. It shows him that I’m being mindful of my role. However the only time I’m to have an implement with me is if I deserve punishment (always the paddle) or if I’ve been directed to have an implement with me. Again like Mynx said every couple is different and this is what works for us. You could ask your Sir how he’d feel if you did the above. Then there is no nasty surprises. πŸ™‚


    • Thanks for the input. I asked Mynx and I’d like your opinion as well… In your experience, other than kneeling, are all unprompted acts/surprises of this nature considered manipulation/topping from the bottom?


  3. It’s these fine lines in the beginning that are a blur and can make it difficult to navigate the waters. At this point, some new married Doms aren’t sure what they would even consider “topping from the bottom” yet because they need to maneuver their way through various to know how they feel. What’s TFTB for one is kinky spontaneity for another. My husband loves spontaneity, which doesn’t mean I can do it all the time, but he likes me fun and frisky. I’m pretty theatrical by nature and he’s said that he doesn’t want me to lose those qualities. From the beginning I always wanted to be kneeling for him when he walked in the door at night. Having kids in the house made kneeling naked by the door absolutely impossible. Like Mynx said, having times when you can discuss fantasies and desires is really important. So, few months ago, I told him that I would love to kneel for him and that this kind of D/s connection could really help me be in the proper mindset for him when he gets home from work because a day with kids is oh, so vanilla and I’ve been the decision person all day. He really liked the idea of this kind of connection and said that I should kneel for him by our bed with nothing on but my red silk robe and have is open loosely. So now, I wait for his phone call or text that he is on his way home. I make sure the kids are set and that his dinner and prepare anything else he needs and when I hear the garage door open I immediately go upstairs to wait for him.

    As for the crop in my mouth, we just recently purchased the leather slapper crop (now his favorite). Last week he had me naked with only my gorgeous black leather bondage style strappy stilettos on (I love those shoes) and told me to get the crop. I gracefully and sensuously walked across the room to the drawer, took out the crop, put it in my mouth and then lithely descended down on all fours and crawled over to him to present his crop. That’s the kind of sexy spontaneity he loves and I was well rewarded for it.


    • Very, very helpful. I’m certain now it would be crossing the line…I should’ve recognized my hesitancy as a stop sign! I’m a very surprise-y sort of girl – I like to mix it up and I know my Husband likes that crazy, unexpected side of me. So, I think, Him finding me kneeling unprompted (when He walks in from work, kids otherwise engaged) would go over well and be seen for what it is – submission – but doing so with the crop or anything else would be viewed as demanding or manipulative. Now, if He tells me to get the crop, all bets are off. Thank you for your help!


  4. Personally, as a Dominant, I would find it refreshing to see my submissive silently asking for something she wants by kneeling with a crop in her mouth. Your Dominant may have other ideas. I personally like the unspoken communication of desire. And seeing a sub kneeling with a crop in her mouth says to me, β€œHere is my desire, which I offer to you as part of my submission.” But again, that’s me. You might consider having a discussion with your Dominant about silent ways to communicate your desire, so that when you do so you are in compliance with his wishes.


    • I have a feeling that my Sir’s views would align with yours, but I definitely need to have a conversation with Him first. I think kneeling with the crop without speaking about it first, might make Him feel like I’m trying to take His control away…though I am most definitely not. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, it helps to get a Dom point of view.


  5. Pingback: Project August: Day 7 – Communication about Non-verbal Communication | Liberate One

  6. Like in previous comments….everyone’s journey will be different. You and your Sir will have to decide for yourselves what works in your relationship…that will come with time.
    With that I’ll say….in our D/s-M journey…I am his sub/wife…and its perfectly acceptable for me to ask or initiate or offer myself to him (and I do) What he chooses to do with that is completely up to him! I do love to see the lustful look in his eye when he walks in to see me kneeling…wearing something sexy…or nothing…with or without a crop or other implement. But we’ve discussed this….and this is acceptable and even encouraged by him. We are still new at this…so he could change his mind in the future…thats up to him! β™₯ Great post….i think a lot of us newbies have this question!


  7. I agree with all the comments above. I live this life 24/7 I give my gift to my Sir I trust him with this gift so I never question his actions or his intentions. We have an open and honest communication always, Sir knows my inner thoughts I kneel a lot. for different reasons as well as out respect to my Sir. There are times that I will present my self with a crop or belt in my teeth to him as I kneel, Sir knows I’m not topping from the bottom because I don’t make a habit of it. I do it only to show Sir my submission is being given to him with everything within me and that I honor Sir by using the crop or belt on me Its Sir choices to decide to implement my request or not. We know this as a D/s M couple because one of the things we learned about each other as we grow and communicate …is to know why we want to do different things and why we do it. So the interpretation is taken the wrong way as topping from the bottom.


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